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| NO NAMES please, but "Did you ever get "bogus" work done on your Evo engine?" |
| YES!... (Dammit!) |
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25% |
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| No... (Thank God!) |
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| Total Votes : 4 |
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Sanctifier
Zorce Moderator
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1794
Location: Good question!
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: CAVEAT EMPTOR! a.k.a. 4G63 BOGUS work... & TORQUE PLATES |
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CAVEAT EMPTOR!... a.k.a. "Let The Buyer Beware!"
An important follow-up to this post... CAVEAT EMPTOR!... a.k.a. 4G63 BOGUS work.
| venum wrote: | | ...there are some mechanics who can't tune these engines... |
Then there are some who call themselves "mechanics" but should use a different name...
"Bandits" (who do "sub-standard" work but overcharge for parts & labour becase they are EXPERTS!)...
Usually they don't own or even borrow a torque wrench when they assemble your engine.
"Breakers" (the clumsy ones who break your expensive parts)...
"Butchers" (all too many who don't know their AZZ from their elbow)...
"Con-men" (who patch-up SH!T... knowing it's SH!T... and try to "stick" you with it for a VERY high price)
... but NOT mechanics.
Here's some work by one of the leading EXPERTS in the country... at least according to him!
It's a "built" 4G63 from an E7; assembled with Garrett GT35 turbo kit / Haltec /
"forged" pistons (???) and Pauter con-rods... etc. etc.
| New Owner wrote: | Because they tuned the Haltec badly while also using NITROUS, the engine ran lean and detonated.
That broke #1 con-rod bolts... con-rod broke... pieces cracked the block in two places...
and broke the end clean off the Main-bearing Girdle...
"Mr Professional" tried to weld the cast-iron block... *
patched one weld with EPOXY (to hide the "sore-foot"???)...
welded the piece of the Main-bearing Girdle... and re-assembled the engine.
Customer sold it... It lasted for 2 days.
The first time "new owner" put down his foot... that was that!... Grey smoke! |
This is what that professional "mechanic"... one of the best known 4G63 EXPERTS in T&T
did to the block before assembly...
EPOXY in yuh tail, when the WELDING DIDN'T WORK!
WE GO TRY WELDING DE NEX SIDE TOO!... (Lower right on Balance-shaft housing...)
Main-bearing Girdle repair... More "Professional Tuner" engineering at its BEST! 
* It's impossible to weld cast iron successfully without specialist equipment, using special welding rod
... and the piece MUST be pre-heated (in a controlled environment) BEFORE & DURING welding....
(...and should be COOLED in a CONTROLLED manner!)
Another way to repair a damaged cast-iron block (for N/A or Diesel applications ONLY) is to use
the "Metalock" method...
Cut out the cracked area, cut a steel plug to fit... drill a surrounding "ring" of small holes...
screw in Nickel plugs... surface grind plug edges.
IMHO I would NEVER use any welded block for a high-boost turbo engine.
My $0.02�
BTW what do you think the new owner should do now? Pay the remaining $50K...
or GET A COMPLETE REFUND?
_________________
Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick! 
Last edited by Sanctifier on Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:57 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Sanctifier
Zorce Moderator
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1794
Location: Good question!
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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BTW MadMen sometimes... "Out of sorrow cometh joy!" A damaged block gives an
excellent opportunity for "Blueprinting" a cylinder block during an engine rebuild.
Think... TORQUE PLATE! This is what a Torque Plate looks like...
This plate (plus correct "break-in" procedure) are perhaps the most important steps to obtain
better piston-ring seating, increased reliability and more torque/power from the "new" engine.
| Goodson's Tools & Supplies wrote: | Cylinder Boring Tips
Lightweight block castings have become very prevalent in our market. Since the overall
mass has been reduced, the controlled stresses have become an important factor in the
block's integrity. To ensure integrity, we must recreate that stress by using a Torque Plate
when boring and honing.
 Torque your main caps in place to correct specifications.
Install a torque plate and torque in place using final assembly torque specifications.
Use stock (OEM) head studs/bolts... too long/too short may abnormally stress the block.
Torque all motor mounts and related accessory brackets (before machining) |
Link --> Goodson's Tools & Supplies - Tech Support
So, long story short... What's so great about getting this damaged block?
| Sanctifier wrote: | Take the old block to a Machine Shop.
1st. Let them "DECK" the old block.
. They need to use the main bearing saddles as a datum point during "set-up" AFAIK.
. Now you have a 'true' horizontal surface to use as a 'baseline' for other machining work.
Cut the casting horizontally. [Leaving you with the cylinder-bore section alone.]
Machine [deck] the section to the same thickness as OEM cylinder head.
Drill out threaded bolt-holes to allow fasteners (bolts/studs) to slide through.
 There you go... TORQUE PLATE!... made from high density cast-iron (4Gxx blocks) too.
So less twisting than alloy plate = better machined cylinder bores = BETTER piston-ring seal.
Oh, I almost forget to mention... = LONGER engine life = More Torque & Power too.
To further duplicate "real world" cylinder bore loading, use OEM head gasket as well.  |
To those who think this is all BULLSH!T and a complete waste of time and $$$$...
Search "boring & honing" proceedures used in F1 / NASCAR / Top Fuel / WRC etc.
Good enough for them... so good enough for me!
Waste of $$$  Cutting and machining may cost... $150-$250.00 TT???...
Machine/Speed Shops in the US charge $250.00-to-$550.00 US to make one for you.
Still not convinced?... Theory & Dyno results coming soon.
THEIR $0.02� first... and mine now...
_________________
Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:51 am; edited 6 times in total |
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Rudman
Pumpum Conqueror
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Still looking for 2 seconds in dex!
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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That's an ingenious way of making a torque plate from scratch.
So ....ahmmm.....who giving up their old EVO block to make one?.... 
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Sanctifier
Zorce Moderator
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1794
Location: Good question!
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Rudman wrote: | That's an ingenious way of making a torque plate from scratch.
So ....ahmmm.....who giving up their old EVO block to make one?.... |
Cheap too! Check the "locked" 7-page thread "in the other place"... (2nr)
Link---> CAVEAT EMPTOR!... a.k.a. 4G63 BOGUS work. ... Donor block is already
available. Owner gave me the old block in disgust. That's how I got the pix to post.
I am rebuilding my original E6 engine shortly. Soon I'll have a 4G63 Torque Plate
to use for boring & honing the block.  As usual, it's a question of when the $$$ come...
Buying tools right now; but I'll post a review when it's finished and in use.
_________________
Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick! |
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BLUE_CP9A
Los Paranderos de Zorce
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 134
Location: Formerly loriORevo....Evos ,Karts ,Motocross
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ever completed this?
_________________
 #69
100cc Yamaha KT100 engine
Birel CR32SR motosport chassis |
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Sanctifier
Zorce Moderator
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1794
Location: Good question!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:08 am Post subject: |
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^ ^ ^ Whoa! Really old thread.
Spending $$$ on a Paintless Dent Repair service starting soon...
Link--> THE ASYLUM!... Workshops & Tools for DIY Madmen (pg 6)
... as well as another Catering "start up" business for my wife later this year.
My Evo 6 already has a good 4G63. I'm afraid making the Torque Plate & rebuilding the spare engine will have to wait on $$$.
BTW BLUE, when yuh goin' to let me dribble over yuh E6?
You promised to let me see it ever since you got it. 
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BLUE_CP9A
Los Paranderos de Zorce
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 134
Location: Formerly loriORevo....Evos ,Karts ,Motocross
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yes old thread, I managed to stumble over it just browsing the older threads.
Well I will soon have my own Torque Plate, I purchased one late May and I'm just awaiting it's arrival, So Don't Hesitate on checking with me if you need to use it, I plan to rent it out (with deposit) to interested parties.
I do intend on bringing the E6 for you to dribble over but I'm currently rebuilding the engine, so once this is complete!
Speak again soon.
Shane
_________________
#69
100cc Yamaha KT100 engine
Birel CR32SR motosport chassis |
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BLUE_CP9A
Los Paranderos de Zorce
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 134
Location: Formerly loriORevo....Evos ,Karts ,Motocross
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Torque Plate is Here!
_________________
#69
100cc Yamaha KT100 engine
Birel CR32SR motosport chassis |
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Sanctifier
Zorce Moderator
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1794
Location: Good question!
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Good luck with the "build". Keep me posted.
_________________
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