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Sanctifier
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:56 am Post subject: "Bogus" Car Registration - Is it really worth it? |
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"Bogus" Car Registration - Is it really worth the risk?...
All to often, every local Car Forum gets a question like this... | "Not-so-well-off" 2nr wrote: | Could those of you who know please shed some light on this...
Is it impossible to register "foreign used" shells?...
What would be the proceedure to get it registered and at what cost? |
Here are the current Regulations from the Transport Commissioner regarding this issue...
Check the date!...
| Rooki 2nr wrote: | | why not do like the other box lancer fellas & cut out the chassis number & weld it above the shock tower of the donor car |
do like the other box lancer fellas...
| Sanctifier wrote: | Because I don't feel like losing my HOUSE! (and ALL my savings) in Court... over an ol' car!
e.g. in a civil case for personal or property damages. |
Weld it above the shock tower...
| Sanctifier wrote: | Both cars are "JDM." JDM chassis numbers are stamped in the middle of the firewall.
I owned two "locals" and two "JDM" Lancers. Only locally assembled Lancers had their chassis numbers welded onto the left shock tower... and trust me, Licensing Officers & the Police know that!... because the "box" Lancer has one of the highest numbers of "bogus" units on the road.
My 1800 GSR is completely legal. Taxed... Registered... Inspected... etc. etc. IMHO NO sense in screwing around with a "legit" car and turning it into a "bogus" one... just to reduce the "build" time needed to repair it properly. |
| Sanctifier wrote: | Why cut it up? ...
Because like they say... "Gopaul luck eh Seepaul luck!"
No "phoney" License Plates... No welded Chassis Number or swapped firewall... NOTHING bogus!
No sense dodging Police road blocks & MoT Inspections just to reduce the "build" time! 
With so much TIME & $$$$ invested in it, I refuse to risk having it impounded by the Licensing Office! 
Unregistered Chassis = VOID Auto Insurance! (& Driver's Permit!) = YOU PAY ALL CLAIMS FOR DAMAGES!!  |
| Sanctifier wrote: | IIRC if you get in an accident driving a car with "bogus" registration; no matter who is liable...
1) You have NO VALID INSURANCE!... (A LARGE fine applies!)
2) IIRC you now also have an INVALID DRIVERS' PERMIT!... Another fine!... &/or Suspended Driver's License!
3) You have to "fix" the other car(s) as well...
If not, they can sue you in Civil Court for the cost of repairs... legal costs... and any other PERSONAL & PROPERTY DAMAGES! that their lawyer can invent... |
"Is it REALLY worth the risk?"... That's your decision... and your funeral!!!
| Sanctifier wrote: | Me?... Drive a "bogus", unregistered car and put my HOUSE and savings at risk?... No Thanks!
I'd buy a mint "foreign used" shell, dismantle it and restore my legal ol' car instead!
That way, I enjoy a "classic" for another 25 years!... IMHO, that's the ONLY Win, WIN option for 2nrs who want to restore their vintage iron... LEGALLY! |
Proverb: "A word to the wise is sufficient!"... | Sanctifier wrote: |  While restoring your vintage ride the legal way (during the actual "build")... it's a VERY good idea to prepare a hardcopy "BUILD" MANUAL (incl. scans of Invoices, spreadsheets etc.) 
... and then post the "build" highlights on the internet... (use pix & "embedded" YouTube video) on "Car Forums"... "YouTube"... "Facebook"... "Twitter"... wherever!
You now have concrete evidence (that can be used in Court if req'd) TO PROVE that your ride was restored legally!
To avoid some officious pewat from making unnecessary trouble if you're in a Police road block...
Keep a "Certified Copy" in your glovebox/console.
Being able to verify the Chassis # will prevent an "issue" in the first place.  |
My $0.02¢
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Last edited by Sanctifier on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:27 pm; edited 9 times in total |
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MG Man
Zorce Klingon Warrior
Joined: 19 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: |
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good thread.....sadly, we trinis like 'nice ting' and always want a shortcut..........and one of the most common excuses is 'we is poor fellas...we cya afford big shot ting'
I've stopped telling people the right thing to do........I just hope I don't get hit by one of them
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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I just hope I don't get hit by one of them... Unfortunately more bogus cars go on the road every day.
we trinis... always want a shortcut... Yup but if they hit your car, usually their Insurance is void and often, they have no savings to pay to fix your car!
In a case like that I think that if the Court can't get costs from them for the victim... then a LONG jail term should apply ...OR...
Give the Court power to CONFISCATE the defendant's property and AUCTION IT to recover costs!
But this is T&T... JUSTICE is often only bought by those who have the power &/or money to pay for it with a high-priced lawyer.
...For the rest of us...  ...and 
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Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:28 am; edited 3 times in total |
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VK-Sportsman
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Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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noob question here: For example, I buy a local legit Jeep CJ-7, have the transfer done etc. and in future I decide to buy an Aluminium body from the US to swap in place of the original body, would that be legal?
Reason I ask is that in the memo above, I see the term "bodyshells". I know that the purchasing of imported old car shells/bodies and swapping the registration is illegal.
Was just wondering what would apply to seperate-chassis vehicles like a Jeep or Pickup, etc.
Thanks.
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:23 am Post subject: |
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^ ^ ^ Hi Sportsman. IIRC there was a Court case about exactly that a few years ago.
The car in question was a Toyota Crown Royal Saloon... and the defendant did just that...
swap the body-shell which was seperate from the chassis, which had the serial number on it.
He won because the Court ruled that the chassis had the identifying serial number on it. Once the seperate body-shell being swapped was the IDENTICAL model to the original, this was legal!
In your case, the replacement shell may not be identical, so it's a grey area... unless you can prove that it's an OEM model for that chassis. IMHO I would check with the Transport Commissioner AND with someone very senior in Customs Dept. before buying the shell. BTW get approvals in writing!
| Sanctifier wrote: | | Unfortunately, most cars are "monocoque" construction today (bodyshell & chassis are one-piece construction) so that's not an option for owners like me. |
My $0.02¢
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wagonrunner
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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you have to decide if what you're changing changes these..............
from........ http://www.jeepfan.com/tech/decoding-jeep-cj-vin-numbers-1971-1986/
| Quote: | | 1975 to 1986 Jeep CJ VIN numbers are usually located in several possible locations. You should find a tin plate on the drivers side firewall near the brake master cylinder. You may also find one on the drivers side dash or the inside body panel by the floor near the parking brake lever. On mid 80′s models it should also appear on the windshield wiper motor cover inside the Jeep. An abbreviated version is usually found on the top of the passenger side frame rail above the rear wheel. |
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Sanctifier
Zorce Moderator
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Posts: 1794
Location: Good question!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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This PM was received this afternoon...
| 2nr4u wrote: | You seem to know a lot about this bro
can you help me here ?
Is a body shell an AUTO PART .... how far down does one have to disassemble a body for it to be legal for import ? Does it have to be in two(2) i.e cut down the center ? Is it legal to import an old shell (1970's) for the purpose of using the parts of it and not building on it i.e putting on doors and putting in an engine on it and putting on a 'rights' and driving it daily ? whats the best way you propose to do a rebuild ?
2nr4u |
Hi 2nr4u,
Is a body shell an AUTO PART... Yup... but unibody shells are ruled by regulations that don't apply to other parts... not even to engines which also have serial numbers, just like unibody shells do.
legal for import...... AFAIK you can import a unibody shell with trim and suspension if you want (but without engine and drive-train.)
That's what I bought for my "GroceryGetter" project. (See link below.)
putting on a 'rights'... What does that phrase mean? There is NOTHING like "rights" that can be transferred from one car to the next.
I don't know what those idiots mean by that. IT'S ALL BULLSH!T, my friend...
It's a total pack of lies, spread by "con men" who want to take your $$$ and leave you in VERY DEEP SH!T
When you buy a bogus car... with "rights" from a legally registered car... all you have paid for is an illegal piece of "foreign used" sh!t with a "bogus" chassis number and number plate from a "locally registered" car stuck onto it.
NO INSURANCE COMPANY WILL EVER HONOUR YOUR CLAIM IN THE EVENT OF AN ACCCIDENT
... because the car itself was never Registered... no Customs Duty was ever paid... no Motor Vehicle Tax was ever paid...
So even if you get an Insurance Certificate (for the older legal car) just think... THIS IS NOT THAT CAR
You just lied to the Insurance Company... your new purchase (foreign used shell) is BOGUS... and NOT INSURED ... because it was NEVER registered... etc. etc.
So after the Insurance Company "spits you out" and refuses to pay your claim... NOW YOU HAVE TO PAY ALL COSTS YOURSELF ... Fix the other car (cars?)... fix ALL other property damage... pay ALL PUBLIC LIABILITY CLAIMS for personal damage (even if the "victims" make up lies of fake personal injuries!)
Then your bogus car will be seized by the Licensing Office... you WILL be charged for driving without valid insurance... your Driver's License will also be suspended or cancelled...
And God help you if someone dies in the accident... Then their family can sue YOU for wrongful death... and "take your shirt"... (and everything else too)
Me?... drive a "bogus", unregistered car?... I don't think so!
whats the best way you propose to do a rebuild?...
| Sanctifier wrote: | The LONG, HARD WAY (See link below.)
Buy a "foreign used" parts car in good condition...
DISASSEMBLE IT (drill out the "spot welds" from ALL the body-panels that you want)...
Do the same to your legal, registered car...
Replace the "foreign used" OEM panels into your legal car!
(I intend to go to EXTREMES... I am also going to buy a spot-welder to duplicate the OEM "Factory look" as much as possible.
I'll also "Weld Bond"... using auto adhesives to stop rust and strengthen the shell more than the OEM did.)
DO NOT tamper with the legal serial number on your original car... LEAVE THAT PART UNTOUCHED
Put together a "BUILD MANUAL" with Invoices, spread-sheets, pictures ("dated") of the "build."
Also start threads on foreign and local Car Forums with details, dates, pictures and videos taken throughout the build!!!
Keep a CERTIFIED COPY in your car at all times!
If they try to seize your car... you can prove to the Judge that it's LEGAL |
Link--> "GroceryGetter!" - Lancer 1800 GTX (A175X.)
My $0.02¢
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Today's reply...
| 2nr4u wrote: | TELL ME MORE
I REALLY IM THANKFUL FOR THIS INFO
WHAT IS MEANT BY but 'unibody' shells are ruled by regulations that don't apply to other parts
WHATS A UNIBODY
WHO DO YOU RECOMMEND OR CAN I BRING IN A SHELL ON MY OWN IF I SOURCE IT IN THE US ? PLEASE ADVISE
THANKS BRO |
Hi 2nr4u.
In the past, cars were designed with a chassis (to which was bolted the suspension, engine & drive-train) and a seperate shell that was bolted to it, to form a complete car. Some light trucks (pick-ups) and SUVs are still built this way.
e.g. Toyota Crown Royal Saloon of the early '80s IIRC.
You CAN change the body-shell on these cars for an IDENTICAL model... because the Chassis Number was stamped on the seperate chassis... and the "body" had NO SEPERATE NUMBER (obviously.)
This "seperate chassis" ruling was tested in the local Court in the '90s and WON by the 2nr. It was the Royal Saloon referred to above.
A 'unibody' is a body-shell and chassis that is designed as a one-piece unit... Most modern cars are built this way. You CANNOT change the body-shell on these cars for an IDENTICAL model... because the Chassis Number was stamped on the ONE-PIECE unibody... (No seperate chassis.)
'unibody' shells are ruled by regulations... The laws and rules enforced by the Customs Division, Licensing Office & Police. These are just some of them...
Check the date...
WHO DO YOU RECOMMEND OR CAN I BRING IN A SHELL ON MY OWN IF I SOURCE IT IN THE US ? PLEASE ADVISE... I bought from a "foreign used" dealer in Bamboo Village. AFAIK any one of them will do. Just get a VAT Invoice stating the Chassis Number etc.
As far as importing your own from the US... Do you have a US model car, registered and licensed in T&T that you want to restore? If so buy an IDENTICAL body (eBay?) and import it via eCouriers (Recommended), Caribbean Express etc.
If your 'US ride' has a seperate chassis, then you might be able to buy a NEW seperate shell from "Mr GoodWrench" (or similar) if available... but they are VERY expensive. For 'unibody' models buy a complete US used car (without engine & drive-train) AND CUT IT UP to restore your legal ride!
If you have a Japanese Market car... I would try a local "foreign used" dealer. It is MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE (2 or 3 times the price) but at least you get TO CHOOSE before you buy.
I tried for months via foreign auto forums and a Japanese Used Car Dealer... No luck!... Then one fell into my lap in Bamboo Village! It comes down to luck... and how long you want to wait. I paid $30k for my EX Lancer 1400, (which is ridiculous) but that was my only option for a 30-year old car in such FANTASTIC condition. (See link in last post.)
My $0.02¢
This is a lot of typing... Call me at 684-4552 if you think I can be of help again... Quicker over the phone. 
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Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VK-Sportsman
Zorce Jedi Apprentice
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| wagonrunner wrote: | you have to decide if what you're changing changes these..............
from........ http://www.jeepfan.com/tech/decoding-jeep-cj-vin-numbers-1971-1986/
| Quote: | | 1975 to 1986 Jeep CJ VIN numbers are usually located in several possible locations. You should find a tin plate on the drivers side firewall near the brake master cylinder. |
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Well, I saw the CJ in question, and the body is rotted, and I saw the VIN plate on the firewall attached with rivets. Its also stamped on the right frame rail just in front the grille.
| Sanctifier wrote: |
He won because the Court ruled that the chassis had the identifying serial number on it. Once the seperate body-shell being swapped was the IDENTICAL model to the original, this was legal!
In your case, the replacement shell may not be identical, so it's a grey area... unless you can prove that it's an OEM model for that chassis.
My $0.02¢ |
The aluminum body I was looking is somewhat OEM like, but there is a steel replacement bodyshell which is built to OEM specs.
My final question, would there be legality issues if I buy the vehicle, remove the riveted VIN plate on the firewall, AND rivet it back onto the new steel body shell?
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wagonrunner
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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well legal. d VIN eh changing chassis. same registration. just repaired body.
but get all paperwork from old body, and i eh know if acknowledgement is required from TC
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I Refuse To Have A Battle Of Wits With Unarmed Persons
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