Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 1794 Location: Good question!
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: The Truth: ~ About Rollcages & Racing Harnesses.
Rollcages and multi-point Racing Harnesses... Are they really safe on the street?
A wrong answer here can KILL you and your passengers.
Here's... The Truth - Common Street Tuning Myths - SCC Jun '06 It's only "street-safe" if well designed by professionals andHEAVILY padded with
the correct type and density of material.
So... am I going to install one in my car? Short answer is: YES!... and NO!
... YES!... but only in the Evo 6; which will be used as a "weekend-warrior" and for Solodex.
...It crosses 60 and 100 mph too quickly for my liking sometimes, and tops 150 mph.
That one needs a cage for my peace of mind.
NB: It's a foreign "in-dash" unit, not a local "wrap-around." No front bends so it's slightly stronger.
... NB: It will be HEAVILY padded with TWO different densities of material...
... 1) very high density material ("medium" rubber sheeting etc.) first...
... 2) then softer "foreign" padding... as a second layer
... The "bolt-in" "X" brace etc. will only be used during competition
... I may add roof bars through rear parcel shelf for competition (non passenger) use.
... NO!... not in the 4wd 1800 GSR! At least not a full cage.
... Yup it's for Solodex use too... but...
... Performance level is not the same. It's a "daily driver" with more "passenger" seat-time.
... NB: I may add low door bars and floor bars for traffic protection and a removable
"harness bar" for 'dex, but nothing above waist height (shoulder height for harness)
... and HEAVILY padded too.
My $0.02c
Comments and suggestions welcome! _________________ Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:13 am; edited 4 times in total
Joined: 03 Sep 2005 Posts: 941 Location: this much in front of you.
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject:
wanna expand on the low bars. it is something i was thinking about for the wagon att one point in time _________________ PROUD MEMBER OF D WAGON BOYZ @ DEX
I Refuse To Have A Battle Of Wits With Unarmed Persons
Any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through, and still knows where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.
Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 2683 Location: usually on the back page
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject:
keep in mind multipoint harnesses WITHOUT a roll cag ecan kill you
its illegal in the UK to run a multipoint harness without a roll cage _________________
I know it's so, for I told me so
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 1794 Location: Good question!
Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 10:28 am Post subject:
wagonrunner wrote:
wanna expand on the low bars. it is something i was thinking about for the wagon
att one point in time
Haven't worked out any specific details yet. Just an idea so far.
I have a couple pix somewhere for add-on components that could be used. _________________ Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Sat May 20, 2006 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 1794 Location: Good question!
Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:04 am Post subject:
MG Man wrote:
keep in mind multipoint harnesses WITHOUT a roll cag ecan kill you
Yup... unless you use a seperate harness bar.. or a belt adapter to link to rear-seat restraints.
See here... http://www.andoauto.com/racing.htm
and here... http://www.andoauto.com/4point.htm
The first is preferable. Less belt-angle.. but two links required IMHO.
This is "so... so" but belt-angle could be better to avoid spine compression IMHO.
_________________ Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 1794 Location: Good question!
Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:49 am Post subject:
Another thing to think about ... Expanded Urethane Foam!...
Yup just like a "works" rally car! It's not as good as "stitch welding" a shell
... but it's much less work and a damn sight cheaper too. I'm definately going there!
Increase stiffness by 30%+ and improve safety at the same time without a full cage.
(Increased "chassis rail" and "A", "B" and "C" pillar stiffness.)
Improved safety and handling... for "street cars" too.
BTW with no more "voids" (air spaces) in chassis box-sections you get the added
benefit of improved "rust protection" and quieter operation too.
Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 2683 Location: usually on the back page
Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject:
actually the concern is that if u have no roll cage and u strapped in, and then have the
misfortune to roll your car, if the hood comes down, u are locked into place and
ur neck could pop etc....... _________________
I know it's so, for I told me so
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 1794 Location: Good question!
Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject:
Yup quite true... but I always think of what could happen if I did nothing at all and relied on
OEM chassis and upholstery to protect my head in the event of a "rollover" or crash...
Especially if the "A" or "B" pillars collapse and/or tear in an accident.
Which is why I suggest the following for "street cars"...
... Better seats!
... Expanded Urethane Foam in all "box" sections and pillars.
... Low "door bars"and integrated "floor braces" to reduce side impact risk. (See below)
... Better seat belts with belt-adapters and/or harness bars... for "spirited" driving.
... Pray!
Let's face it. A seat belt is supposed to keep you in place...
not allow you to flop around conveniently in the event of a rollover.
It's a "no win" situation with no perfect answers... so I think I'll try some logical precautions
to minimise the risks. I can't do any more than that...
My $0.02c _________________ Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Sat May 20, 2006 2:33 pm; edited 5 times in total
While structural foam, in "2 lb/cub ft" density can stiffen chassis members up to 40 percent;
maybe a combination of densities can be used for even better results.
Use "2 lb/cub ft" density in chassis rails to allow a greater level of "give" in side impacts
(to reduce the force actually transferred to the occupants.)
... but use even higher densities for the "skinny" "A" (windscreen) and "B" (door) pillars
that usually collapse, or even worse... "tear" so easily in an accident.
Reduced roof and side pillar collapse... plus better seats and belts... plus OEM "air bags" to
absorb forces generated during accidents, should be a much better life-saving
combination than 3-point seat-belts, air-bags and plastic trim alone. There's your roll-cage ... with no dangerous intrusive bars at all;
(and no padding needed) reducing the need for door and floor bars
... with the added benefit of being lighter than a cage for improved acceleration ...
(Cheaper and less work.) Have your cake... and eat it too!
A local "weld-in" full cage is $14-16,000 installed. Humm... maybe I should have an "Evo 6 roll cage" sale now!
Comments??? _________________ Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:43 pm; edited 3 times in total
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 1794 Location: Good question!
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: The Truth: ~ About Rollcages & Racing Harnesses.
Suzuki Sportsman wrote:
Evo's are MONSTERS! .....I would never ever own one because of that.
Seriously my friend. The E6 will only be used as a "Week-end Warrior" and for Solodex;
not as a daily driver. I'm not too interested in excessive top speed or drags.
With the EvoGREEN turbo and other mods, I'm hoping for...
Quote:
0-60 mph < 4 seconds... 0-100 mph < 9 seconds... with brakes and handling to match!
Then I'll use a rollcage (with excessive padding)... but "damn sure better than cocksure"... so...
ONLY with a full four-point harness... the OEM air-bag...
AND a driver's seat similar to this to protect my head when driving without a helmet.
................................
My $0.02� _________________ Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Hitting your head on a roll cage hoop in an accident is like being struck with a baseball bat. _________________ Livng life one day at a time
Doggy Style
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 1794 Location: Good question!
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:19 am Post subject:
^ ^ ^ Yup you're right Dawg. I'm against using it in a stock daily driver too. See above.
Sanctifier wrote:
By stiffening the chassis for better handling, we're also reducing the effectiveness of
the OEM "crumple zones." Forces generated in an accident tend to follow the "line of least
resistance." They'll be transmitted to other areas of the passenger compartment/floor-pan.
That might increase the risk to the driver and pasengers too, not so?
Also wouldn't hitting your head on the thin plastic trim of the "B-pillar" and the door do just
as much (if not more) damage? Looks like your head will hit the belt buckle first too. (below)
Maybe I'll be better off using a HANS-type seat (previous post)... PLUS 4-point harness...
PLUS two-stage padding for the cage, than with nothing at all in a stiffened chassis.
That's why I suggested using a full harness plus a seat that helps to protect my head too.
Comments please Dawg.
My $0.02� _________________ Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:23 am; edited 2 times in total
UPDATE: Here's a video clip on using expanding polyurethane foam to stiffen the chassis...
Is it that you just drill some holes in the panels and then inject the foam?
How do you know when the section has been filled with foam? I was expecting to see
some starting to flow out from some of the other holes indicating that it was full?
Quote:
While structural foam, in "2 lb/cub ft" density can stiffen chassis members up to 40 percent;
maybe a combination of densities can be used for even better results.
Use "2 lb/cub ft" density in chassis rails to allow a greater level of "give" in side impacts
(to reduce the force actually transferred to the occupants.)
... but use even higher densities for the "skinny" "A" (windscreen) and "B" (door) pillars
that usually collapse, or even worse... "tear" so easily in an accident.
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