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Sanctifier
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 Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: The Truth: ~ About Oil... and the BULLSH!T about it. |
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The Truth: ~ About Engine Oil and all the BULLSH!T surrounding it!...
| 2nr 1 wrote: | | i want ... good oil in my 1.5 stock engine... |
Basically 6-of-1, half dozen-of-the-other. Anything from NP Ultra to Mobil 1 synthetic.
IMHO for normal use, save your money and use a reliable mineral oil... it's cheaper
... and offers identical protection to upscale (usually overhyped) 'mineral' brands.
Yup the best is a top-quality synthetic... but do you run a heavily boosted, high-rpm engine??
You don't really need an expensive synthetic for a "short trip" daily driver.
(No competition use right?)... Do you need an oil/filter change for $150 ...or $450.00??
BTW most oils have to adhere to specific international (API) standards.
Check the API rating it's a good general indicator of quality. (Yup NP is good too.)
It's more important to stick to one brand all the time... and use a top quality filter.
Mixing or swapping brands (without "flushing" first) may cause "foaming" if chemicals
(like detergents) in two different brands are incompatible.
My $0.02c 
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Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick! 
Last edited by Sanctifier on Sun May 28, 2006 7:10 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| 2nr 2 wrote: | | I just had to ask.......for older model cars.. in the 10 year category.. what kinda oild would you guys suggest? |
If it's in good condition... a multi-grade mineral oil (20W/50)
If it's in bad condition... a straight body oil ("50" body.)
My $0.02c
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| 2nr 3 wrote: | dependending on the vehicle 2nr 1, you would get many varying answers.
what works well in one vehicle may not in another.
i for one use quaker state 20w50 in my civic and no complaints to date, yet some mitsu owners find that with the quaker state, they observe noisy tappets.
my humble 0.02 |
If your tappets are making noise... they are dirty with sludge... and sticking!
Take them out and clean them... or replace them! That's the only real solution.
No different oil brand will fix the issue permanently IMHO.
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Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Sun May 28, 2006 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| 2nr 4 wrote: | | ^^ what is a good engine flush? |
| 2nr 5 wrote: | why u need an engine flush?
can't be that bad |
^ ^ ^ IMHO you need an engine flush because of "sludge." Stop-and-Go driving, short trips...
anything that doesn't allow the engine to operate at correct heat range for long enough.
This causes the mixture of moisture formed during the combustion cycle to mix with
combustion by-products and dirt (via intake air) to form sludge... especially
for "short trip" daily drivers. Every gallon of gas burnt makes a gallon of water vapour.
That, mixed with oxidation residues (plus dirt) is what forms sludge.
No oil/filter change can get rid of sludge build-up completely... every engine forms sludge!
I took nearly half an hour to clean an Evo 7 oil-pan properly (hand scraping... gas... etc.)
Just draining... and pouring fresh oil on it will never work IMHO.
Even better, especially for older engines, I suggest switching off engine after chemical flush
... drain (with old filter still on)... then use 1 gal. of cheap "flushing oil" as extra precaution first
... drain again (remove old filter)... then add new oil and good filter.
BTW use "engine flushes" with CAUTION! Only add when engine is already fully warmed up.
Follow instructions to the letter. Never "rev" when using "engine flush."
As a matter of fact use it for a little less time than recommended... better than "spinning"
a bearing on an older engine. (Been there... Done that!) 
My $0.02c
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Walk softly... and carry a BIG stick!
Last edited by Sanctifier on Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:36 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| 2nr 6 wrote: | | good advice there, with the mention of lettign a gallon of oil run through after the flush has been used and never "rev" when using a flush. |
^ ^ ^ There is a very cheap "flushing oil" sold for that purpose.
Order both from industrial equipment and lubricant dealers or your gas-station.
More info... http://www.andrewsofprinceton.com/shared/nines/002.cfm
Product info example... http://www.auto-rx.com/
The oil companies have won. They all fooled everybody into believing all their BULLSH!T.
Everyone wants overpriced "super oil" for their "grocery getter"...
but still don't know how to clean their engines properly...
Then they hear another line of BULLSH!T in three months... and change brands again!
Here's some real facts about "mineral" and "synthetic" oil... and the usual brand of
BULLSH!T that passes for information by the general public.
BTW Quaker State is trying to "con" you to buy their brand here too.
http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/carcare/whattoknow.asp
Seems kind of pointless to "fuss" about using "super special" oils to safeguard your engine...
paying exorbitant (rip-off) prices for it... buying the most popular filter around
(not necessarily the best)... and then leaving the engine dirty and adding fresh oil
to the thick layer of "gue" (sh!t) already inside.
So... know your application... buy a reasonably priced, regularly stocked brand
(to avoid having to change brands later)... Buy good filters... use an "engine flush"
... then "flushing oil" for every oil-change.
If your mechanic doesn't want to do it that way... GET A NEW MECHANIC!... It's your engine!
BTW Clean (maybe change) the air-filter too... Dirt gets in mainly through the intake.
IMHO it doesn't make sense to wipe your "rear-end" and leave your nose "runny". 
My $0.02c
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| 2nr 7 wrote: | I won't recommend flushing period. Flushes contain corrosive compounds that can do more harm than serve the purpose for which they are intended.
Whenever you are SWITCHING engine oils, just let the oil do its work. It's usually recommended that when you switching brands, run the new oil for 3,000km and then CHANGE it. You can then go on to running the oil for the normally recommended intervals. |
Flushes contain corrosive compounds... Not all of them are similar in formulation.
Anyway that's why I suggested using a "flushing oil" after... before the final oil/filter change.
just let the oil do its work... Without "chemical flushes" you can never get rid of
the sludge... which is always much more damaging to the engine.
No "3,000km early changes" can ever get rid of sludge.
Also think of the other disadvantages (like "foaming" and sludge still circulating inside)
when you do this "break-in" trial period... for 3,000km (???) (nearly 2 months?)
If using new oil alone was the answer... then sludge would never be a problem.
Read the links for more info... and try a "Google" on engine sludge... you'll see
My $0.02c 
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| 2nr 8 wrote: | Sanctifier, what engine flush would you recommend? is the auto RX sold locally?
i'm still a little skeptical about the flush, but i've changed oil brands a few times, and i KNOW i might be gathering some sludge.
can you clear up something for me as well: when you say use a cheap "flushing" oil; do you mean after i use the engine flush, put some cheap oil like a gallon of quaker state mineral oil and a regular filter (say purolater)? how long do i run the car with this oil in it? and if i use a cheap mineral oil like the quakerstate or castrol GTX, and i go back to my castrol syntec, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?
i'm a little uncertain about these procedures, would you mind clearing them up? |
2nr 8... IMHO sludge causes so much unnecessary wear to the engine that I would
do a chemical flush at least every 2 or 3 oil changes and use "flushing oil" every time first.
what engine flush See what's available and then do a Google for any reviews of it.
is the auto RX sold locally? Don't know. Flush is so seldom used by anyone except marine/
industrial engineers etc. that you'll have to use any decent one that's available.
i KNOW i might be gathering some sludge. You can bet on it. Once an engine is working, sludge forms.
1 gallon gas burnt = 1 gallon of water vapour formed in the combustion chamber.
Now add intake dirt at about 350-600 c.f.m. (cubic feet a minute) because no filter is perfect.
Now mix with carbon deposits etc... IMHO I can't see how there couldn't be sludge formation!
cheap "flushing" oil... There is actually a product called "Flushing Oil."
NP should have in Sea Lots. Check your gas station to order.
It's a very low viscosity oil that's designed to do just that... to "flush" old
oil residue and dirt (sludge) out of the engine and oil-pan.
NEVER START YOUR ENGINE WITH "FLUSHING OIL" IN IT!...
*At most crank for as short as possible once or twice with plug leads disconnected.*
Otherwise you'll burn your bearings very quickly... (As I said before... been there... done that!)
procedures... Follow the "chemical flush" instructions to the letter.
ALWAYS have your engine at normal operating temperature first.
Add "chemical flush" to engine...
Start engine and follow instructions to the letter. The only variation might be to use
"chemical flush" for a minute or two less. ("Damn sure!" better than "Cocksure!")
Stop engine and immediately remove sump plug and old filter...
Drain thoroughly...
Replace sump plug and old filter...
Add "flushing oil"... (at least a gallon...)
...DO NOT START!!!!... (See *...* above.)
Remove sump plug and old filter...
Drain thoroughly...(maybe do this step twice... it's very cheap.)
Maybe if you're very cautious... add a litre of your new oil and drain that first too.
Install new filter and replace sump plug... Add oil to OEM specifications... Don't under/over fill.
Add extra to account for filter volume (fill then drain old filter to learn accurate amount first.)
Now you can start... but allow the engine to warm up again before you "flog" it.
Yup I know... "Picky"...but I paid $20k for my E7 engine. After "add-ons" like cams, exhaust,
ECU, water injection etc. double that! Parts and labour ain't free. What's yours worth to you?
IMHO cleaning the engine properly is a hell of a lot more important than making a huge issue
about whose brand to buy. That decision should be based upon OEM specs and application.
My $0.05c
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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UPDATE: Here's the method that's very expensive... but a viable alternative for
better maintained (newer) engines. The hot-pressurised recycling method.
Examples...
Power Flush... Here
Bilstein Engine Flush... Here
Other brands locally available at Laughlin & DeGannes and the Wynns distributor in St. Joseph.
Engines that were (previously) poorly maintained (sic~"used" or older engines) may be safer
with a less powerful chemical flushing method. Simple reason being that they are probably
already suffering from much more "baked on" varnish and hardened sluge than normal,
and powerful backflushing under pressure may damage old, hardened seals... or even
worse, cause hardened sludge deposits to be lodged elsewhere.
So basically it does depend on your engine's condition but do CLEAN it regularly.
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Last edited by Sanctifier on Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jimbo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Whoa Sanct, do you know if any companies in Trini do the above stated engine flushes?
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: |
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^ ^ ^ Power flushes: Laughlin & DeGannes and the Wynns distributor in St. Joseph.
Chemical flushes: Peake's Gas Station in Cocorite and me... (622-5196.)
Mitchell's Service Station in Boissiere Village, Maraval (Shameless advertising "plug")
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Last edited by Sanctifier on Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:07 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Jimbo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: |
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^^ which one would you recommend, I've heard of ppl having bad experiences with Laughlin, is this true?
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Don't know for sure. I power flushed the Galant's auto trans about 18 months ago and it
worked very well. Mr. Campbell was the technician. Never did an engine though.
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vfp16
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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wow very good information there as usual.  |
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MG Man
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Sanctifier, what do u think about this:
The HSR was down for almost a year, so the oil was not in the best of shape. I did not want to drain and put my new Kendall oil in, cuz there's always some 'old' oil lurking around that would contaminate the Kendall. I don't like the idea of using a flush either. What do you think about putting in some NP Ultra 20W50 and leaving the car to idle a bit, and then draining again to replace with Kendall, ie using the NP as a flush.........
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Maybe you could still use "Flushing Oil" as an intermediate step after first draining the oil.
That's what it's for. It's very low viscosity and used to "flush out" sediment before
adding new oil. Also then you'll avoid the slight risk or foaming, if the two different sets
of additives are not compatable.
That would make the use of the Ultra irrelevant... and save you some money.
I know you're against the idea of "chemical flushes" but IMHO using it... even
for a shorter time than recommended is important since the engine has had reasonably
high milage... and has been in storage for such a long time and it's easier than dropping
the oil-pan to clean it. (AFAIK Doesn't the front sway-bar pass through it??)
It's gentle enough not to damage oil seals... but not as vigorous as a "heated power flush."
Cleaner internals will give you longer life before a re-build becomes necessary.
My $0.02c
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