bigger injectors and throttle body

savvy

hey all i getting in rell pressure to source and find bigger injectors and a throttle body do yall have any experience with this and any related websites to check that might have some trying to plan for a project and these two are giving me the most headache apart from sourcing a good extractor with more free flow

project is for a 306 xsi 2.0 8v still gonna be a daily driver but naturally aspirated not thinking of turboing just yet Smile

maybe later down the road
all replies will be helpful thanks
_________________
...silence is virtue i talk with my foot on the X

dlittlelion · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:11 am Post subject:

K....b4 we go any further Whats your goal? wat is your rated hp? bout how much yuh makin now?

d whole hp/performance thing is more science dan any thing else bigger throttle bodies with a stock head/cam will not give you much gains same for the injectors......you need to think the whole process through which also includes basic fuel injection operation

savvy · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:26 am Post subject:

i hear yuh
ok goal is to get 200 hp prolly engine dont know if 200 hp at the wheel will be attainable going naturally aspriated these are the goals i have set for the car once i aquire it and income starts to make itself surface

car: 306 3dr xsi 2.0 8v sohc de engine code is the xu10j2 and its rated at 127hp stock
plans for the car well engine work for this thread:

kent cams
intake and extractors with striaght exhaust pipe no baffle or cat converter
power boost valves
bigger injectors
bigger throttle body
diamond power clutch
lightened flywheel but just a bit maybe
ecosse quick shift kit
prolly forged pistons (still an inquiery)
and a haltech management system either e6x or the e8
msd ignition is still in question for me

apart from engine:
AVO road sport rs75-22 suspension kit 50mm drop
momo or omp strut brace
stiffer torsion bars 23.5mm
anti roll bar, rear 23mm

dont know yet but trying to find sway or stabilizer bars no luck yet though

goal is to have quick available power of around 200 with everything tuned and car sits flat arse on the road still a daily driver but not feeling the turbo charging just as yet trying to see how much NA she can take maybe turbo later down the road but thats the goals for the car or end results i wish to achieve

hope this added info helps dlittlelion in ur knowledge of being able to assist me thanks
_________________
...silence is virtue i talk with my foot on the X

LionTamer · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:44 am Post subject:

WOW....well u definitely have a plan....i hope u r open 2 constructive criticism..... here goes...
Starting from the bottom up cause this is the way u should build your ride...
strut brace..suspension at $3500.tt is great 2 upgrade go right ahead, i would suggest u stay away from such an aggressive height, your ride will not be enjoyable that low, go for more like 40-45mm drop max. but the roll bars & torsion bars do not necessarily need 2 be upgraded based on the hp level you are aiming for, the pug comes with some pretty good stuff especially in suspension & seeing u have a xsi 2.0 dont waste the money on stiffer torsion bar u really dont need it for 200hp. However to carry up a 127hp pug motor to 200hp with the mods you are looking at with a single cam, no head work & no forced induction i doubt you willl see 200hp or even close. If you going forged pistons you might as well go turbo....your mods dont warrant forged pistons you only wasting cash there estimate $4000.tt cause i dont know that brand of pistons, Haltech engine management is excellent but again at a minimum of $9,000.tt for those models, you spending money badly....MSD DIS2 at $2500.tt you cannot just put into a pug, it depends on if the engine needs it & you will only know this when you have done all & start tuning....lighten flywheel at $300tt. in local machine shop, once you are prepared to do a lot more revving to go up hill. The best single cam design for a street pug at $3000.tt will give you max 20hp on a natural aspiration ride, power boost valve at $1100.tt is great with larger throttle body & injectors (not sure if you going new or bamboo) but i really think your formula for 200hp on this engine will not get you there...sorry to be so harsh but it is a reality.. it makes no sense chasing a target you are not going to hit...you can hit the 200hp target just not with these mods done this way. If you total the cost of all those mods which is estimated as new parts you are spending $23,400.tt minumum then you have to pay to get all installed & tuned which can cost about another $2,000.tt....Now at an estimated grand total of $25,400.tt you will realise you can turbo this ride for the same cost & get a better possibility of hitting 200hp & have the possibility of getting more later on...i strongly suggest you think it over....Please note my estimates here are based on the parts you mentioned being new & are estimated at a moderate figure. Some may not agree with me but i know for a fact you cant get a cam, suspension upgrade, forged pistons, power boost valve, MSD DIS 2 or Haltech e6k in the bamboo so these cost are pretty real. I would like to encourage you but not in this direction.................. best regards

dlittlelion · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:33 am Post subject:

savvy boy try a wet nos kit a bible and plenty tiolet paper lol..............any way if you go high compression with a well flowing head you might reach close but then timing issues will come into play............... Carburetors may be the way to go it might seem like a step backwards but it is an upgrade that is being offered 2 twin webbers on 2 short manifolds will more than give you enough air and fuel Cam and head have to be well done this may Compromise your ride at low rpm

savvy · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject:

haha i like da bible and plenty toilet paper dlittle and thanks alot both of yall for yall experience and guidance im not discouraged or broken down cuz truth is information is key to building ne grt machine so i appreciate ur advice tamer if i have to go with turboing the car what process would i have to do im not a tech guru but im always willing and open to learn about new stuff i love the pleasure of driving i cant do without so thats probably why my goals are so high costed but if i have to turbo her i will do it if that will achieve the goals so advice and guidance is always appreciated from you tamer also dlittle and anyone else who wishes to contribute right now im still in the storming and planning stages for the ride but first and foremost before the engine gets hassled down i wanna make sure she is safe suspension,brakes,struts,braided lines whatever it takes to make her safe then power after btw where would you reccomend to get a bigger throttle body from and injectors if i decide to turbo her and what price cost u looking at?

btw that haltech is going in after i turbo her if i have to Very Happy

even if i have to save my arse off for it lol
thanks you two for the advice keep it coming
thanks
_________________
...silence is virtue i talk with my foot on the X

Plex · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject:

somehow savvy, turbo is the way...when u spend that kind of money u want to make sure u get the right results...

dlittlelion · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject:

dah is d spirit savvy keep yuh chin up

savvy · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject:

yup and as i was telling tamer i dont mind spending the pretty penny but i have to get my realiability,quality and satisfaction to know she was well tunes well done well equppied and well running so as u rightfully said the right results Wink

_________________
...silence is virtue i talk with my foot on the X

Plex · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:35 am Post subject:

savvy, i am in the same boat, i want to turbo but do not have much infor on how..so is liontamer & dlittlelion i asking for infor..

LionTamer · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject:

Great 2 see u guys can take the hard truth when it comes 2 these pugs....Savvy u mentioned "reliability" in your statement, LittleLion will tell u once u start modifying outside the manufacturers specifications "reliability" goes out the door...but that never stopped anyone b4 so dont let it stop u either. My additional advice to u Savvy & also to you Plex is if u want 200hp at the wheels u need to make appprox 240hp at the engine so set your goal at that point unless u want more....this number is a good one & i think u can do it...japanese cars may come a bit stronger with stock pistons but i am not sure about pugs so i wont gamble it cause it could cost u more than just pistons if it blows up or melts down....so a good guide to get 240whp(engine hp) out of your xsi would be from the bottom up based on turbocharging:-
1) piston upgrade complete with all rings & grudging pins(compression ratio 8.5.1)
2) stronger connecting rod bolts...stock connecting rods
3) stock oil pump(once your original is good & pressure is on spec)
4) stock liners (if this engine carriers liners)
5) upgraded in-tank fuel pump or in-line pump (at least 200 litres per gallon)
6) custom exhaust manifold (nothing less than 2 3/4 inches in dia but not necessarily 3 inches) all bends should be mandrel
7) T3/T4 turbo (many options exist but get a hp rating eg:-275hp or 300hp)
Cool

External wastegate
9) Upgraded radiator (2 core cross flow) nothing less...& not plastic pugs push more heat
10) aftermarket fuel pressure regulator
11) higher flow injectors (450cc) per injector
12) performance head gasket
13) stronger head bolts (or conversion head stud kit..this is a easier setup)stock head bolts will stretch under boost & can cause gasket blowout
14) stock intake manifold will take 200hp anything more it may start to melt...throttle body needs to be at lest 2 1/2 inches in dia.
15) dual valve springs or stronger valve springs
16) Adjustable cam gear
17) air to air intercooler with inlet & outlet tubes being no less than 2 inches in dia. both tubes must be on left when in drivers seat.
1 Cool

boost controller
19) full standalone engine management or piggy back ECU(a good one)
20) brake upgrade (rear not absolutely neccessary)
21) if u running gearbox..clutch, pressure plate & release bearing upgrade..stock gearbox good for 200-250hp
22) make sure u have a good mechanic electrician & tuner to get this all done
i suggest you tune on the dyno or road tune is excellent also just more time consuming.

this list appears to be much but this is not a japanese car...this list is based on my experience & recommendations...i do not know everything about tuning but i do have a 345hp pug that has more stuff than this list...this is the best guide i can give to doing it right the first time...u can choose other cheaper alternatives but i am sure u will have some regrets...it took me 5 years to reach 345hp & it was with some pain involved...this list is in an effort to avoid any pug owner having to go through that pain...the choice is yours...this will work for almost any pug as a basic formula...however make sure your engine is good for boosting to start with...there are some more specs involved to the above list but i will have to answer those questions as they come up cause i am tired typing.....i hope & trust that this info will be used wisely & constructively as i have nothing to prove & enjoy sharing this info & what i have learnt over the years.

Plex this will work for you also...if you want less than 200hp then u will not need to do all

savvy · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject:

thanks for the comprehensive rundown on tuning and turbocharging the pug tamer i will definately give u a call and we can set up a day to meet and talk hopefully and maybe we can get more people interested in this tuning section to attend a meeting of some sort to gain knowledge as well and i dont mind the list is long i dont expect to turbo her in under 9 months cuz of cost and income but i rather do it right and make it a quality or best of installation so i love that the list is long and the requirements for a good tune i will definately keep in contact with u and dlittle and others to make sure im furthur educated and that im doing a good job at the mods so thanks u guys and dont wry dlittle i have spirit to kill when it comes to my wheels lol hope to meet yall soon and we cud talk more performance talk aint really obbessed with looks and flash but my drive instead but question as ive been asking for a while where did u get ur bigger throttle body from tamer if u have one i cant source one newhere on net or nething ne direction u can point me in or also u dlittle
thanks u guys and doh wry plex i sure yuh boosted pug to wok good too Wink

_________________
...silence is virtue i talk with my foot on the X

Plex · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject:

Liontamer, i will have to print that list out..pressure..but i for it..i myself do not expect this to work overnight, thanks for the advice..seeing that list makes me want more..but i taking this a step at a time, setting a budget for now..i tell the g/f i want my car turbo first before i get married after that we my wish has come true..glad she understand..savvy, there are guys who are in this boat to turbo their pug, which is why we will be trying to bring down aftermarket parts, if we could buy as a group makes it easier..which why the Island Pug club is formed...

Liontamer when u dyno the car is it possible for us to see the work u have done to your car?

savvy · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject:

hahaha glad to see you got your gf's consent plex i wish mine would do the same she still adjusting to the fact that i gonna be tunning again but smalls de love strong she go come round haha yup buyin as a group will make everything easier and i like the way the club is already bonding and coming together so judos to that hehe and true wudnt mind taking a look at tamer's ride looks rather beautiful if i do say so lol
_________________
...silence is virtue i talk with my foot on the X

Plex · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:27 am Post subject:

yep, thats why this club should pull off...